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inertia
clarification about twitter + fandom wank 
9th-Jan-2011 05:26 am
princesses dancing
I'd like to clarify a few things because I think that some of my criticisms may have been misunderstood.

I do not have a problem with street teams or street team projects. However, I feel that some things have not been handled as professionally as they should have been, and I know that I'm far from being the only person with that opinion. I've been reading Twitter all week, the band members' blogs, and I looked around Facebook, but I could not get a clear idea of what this Versaillesphilia concept was supposed to represent. It seemed to mean something different every time I turned around.

I appreciated Allie taking the time to explain the idea, and after learning what it was that she was trying to do, I sent her a long e-mail about what I saw as issues with the way it had been presented to fans, some of the objections that fans have had due to communication problems, and some suggestions that I thought might help to smooth the objections and make it more appealing to a wider group of fans. There were probably things in there that she or other street team members didn't want to hear, but I did write it with the goal of providing constructive criticism to help them improve the plan.

What I would really like is for Versailles to be seen in the best light possible, for the staff and street teams to operate effectively and smoothly, and for fans to get along. I don't believe that keeping my mouth shut when I think something is being done clumsily is helpful toward that. I didn't write this stuff just to be a hater, although I probably did some things clumsily myself too and didn't come off as well as I could have. I want both the staff and street teams to think about what happened that might have caused a bad impression so it can be prevented in the future. But I feel like I've come off as some kind of horrible ogre.

Also, I would like to know what the proper channels are to send criticism, suggestions, and contributions to both staff and street teams. That is, assuming that this is even possible for someone with no officially recognized status. A couple of weeks ago I attempted to send a translation to management, something which fans were specifically asking for and would have found useful, but so far there's been no reply. Maybe I sent it to the wrong address or person. Maybe I'm being ignored because I'm not part of a street team. I was hoping to at least get a rejection so I could publish it myself and fans could make use of it.

Earlier I'd felt like some small steps had been made toward some kind of resolution, but now I think it looks even worse. I have tried to be helpful and offered contributions and suggestions, but more and more I feel as if the only role for no-rank fans like me is to shut up and be Versailles' ATM. I guess that's just usual though, so I feel somewhat ashamed for imagining it might be different in this case.
Comments 
8th-Jan-2011 09:55 pm (UTC)
Hello inertia, this is Allie, i've been reading this posts and find some interesting things about what other fans think about street teams, i believe my e-mail will help with this wrong ideas about the meaning of our existance.
Yet i must agree with this, some street teams did not act properly, even my own does not know how to approach to japanese fans cause they use to be so jealous about Versailles, but what we want is to work together, we are not street teams to have some sort of privilege, but just to promote the band in each country, to our people, to our fans without being better than anyone.

if street teams, all are so united, why we can't be united as fans, without status, there's no such thing when it comes to Versailles, there's no status, no president, leader or whatever you can think of.

I believe we all can make this work, we can talk it, get to a solution and work together, us in our countries, you in japan, and all of us for Versailles, together until we all meet in a Versailles show if god allow it.
that's why i think.
8th-Jan-2011 10:29 pm (UTC)
I agree with you except in one thing: it is easier to be heard if belong to an official ST. I say it for my personal experience. It does not mean fans do not belong to a ST are less important, of course not!! All of us are equal and Versailles loves everyone the same, but send projects or whatever through an ST makes things easier for everyone as I said.
8th-Jan-2011 10:24 pm (UTC) - it's ok
Well, I understand you position, being one of the two who had the original idea, and seeing all the fighthing this has caused, I also feel myself as a hated person u.u
Nikki and me as the begginers of the Versaillesphilia thing always had the intention of ask everyone's opinion before tell something about it to the band, therefore it was posted on public WorldTeam FB, for those teams who do not have FB, it was sent to their myspace accounts. We do not receive reply from everyone, but the ones who replied expresed their opinions, most of them agreed and the ones who did not, suggested the different dates mentioned. We told that to Versailles, and among all the days suggested the decided January 4th. Maybe some fans do not understand the importance of this day, but cleary Versailles does and agrees.
However, the problem itself was that it all happened in a time that some people consider very quickly (it took 2 days) and didn't give time to everyone to read about, maybe some fans or ST did not went online at all and that's why they now said "they were not asked"... but everyone was asked!! it is nobody's fault if some poeple do not go online or don't check Versailles' Street Teams related FB or myspace. In my opinion, people who do not take the time to check, do not have the right to fight about... however, maybe we should wait longer until ask Versailles approval, but the thing is, Versailles Staff realized about the idea (by public tweets I presume) even before we had time to send private message to them about it. Once we received message from Staff saying it was a great idea and greeting us, I personally replied: "I will send to you the complete information about it"; so I did, by private message, telling as I have said many times, ALL THE DAYS SUGGESTED BY FANS and the oppinion that those days different to January 4th was to some fans more representative. Even so, they decided January 4th.

About the fact that you mention of not being part of a Street Team, there is not ST in your country?
Well, even if your suggestion or project or whatever it is, is very serious; if you do not belong to the kind of industry related to music in your country or you are at least part of an Street Team (since st are official); your mail can be probably confused with simple fanmail and hardly taken seriously. I am telling you because I had similar issues in the past. Now as one of the leaders of Colombia ST I am taken seriously in this kind of matters, but I think it is because I belong to an Official Street Team. My advice for you is to join the ST in your country, if it does not exist, then start it!!!
That way you will be taken seriously an as you said, you will receive at least a declination if is the case.
Is not that they don't want to pay attention to all fans, of course they do, but they do not have the time to read and discuss and decide about each idea that each fan has!!.. Through a ST, one person' idea becames one country' idea, so that way is much easier for everyone, fans, staff and band. And more chances to be heard.
And that's all ^^
I hope everything is clear now and nobody hates anybody ¬¬
I'm tired to explain and defend myself, and I'm not the only one feeling this way; and also a lot of us feel very ashamed and dissapointed that this kind of figthing made Mayumi-san sad, and therefore the band members u.u
9th-Jan-2011 06:30 pm (UTC) - Re: it's ok
Thank you for your polite replies toward me and karasu. I appreciate your taking the time to explain things, and if my tweets/posts were among the things that made you feel hated, I apologize. It's obvious now that any problems were just because the project spread across the internet before it was polished enough to be seen by the public. I think Shizuka had some great ideas to prevent this happening in the future.

It was already said but I'm in Japan and there isn't a street team here. Back when the street teams were started I did think about trying to join the US team since that's where I'm originally from, but after some consideration I realized it wouldn't work. I've lived in Japan since 2002 so in a lot of ways I'm as clueless about the current state of the US fanbase and their regional issues as any other foreigner. I try to do some things that I think would be helpful to Versailles and their fans, like helping overseas fans get tickets to concerts and events in Japan, translating things once in a while, and reporting on concerts/events for fans who weren't able to attend. (Actually, I haven't been doing the reports lately because I've been feeling really discouraged and unenthusiastic for a lot of reasons...) But it's all completely unofficial.

I hope you've had a chance to rest and relax, and you're feeling better now. :)
10th-Jan-2011 01:52 am (UTC) - Re: it's ok
No need to apologize since you have been very polite. However some coments form some people have not, and some just talk about what they think that happened instead ask what was what happened for real.
It is not a porblem for me to be pointed out about some things I might be done in a wrong way even if I have a good intention, but there is also no need to be rude and say things like "some teams" (cleary refering to us) work only to get the credit of the band or do not care about others oppinion, etc etc etc. First of all because that is a lie in general and second because it is not what happened in the particular issue of versaillesphilia. So those kind of comments that are not to solve things but apparently only to figth just because, are the kind of attitude that made me feel hated.
But I think is all clear now, at least is clear for the people who really wanted to solve things and not to figth anymore. Maybe a few ones want to continue thinking bad about some of us, but if it is that way it can not be helped.
Thank you for your oppinios and reply.
And I congrat you for the work you do for the band, I know it is not easy ^^

8th-Jan-2011 10:30 pm (UTC)
Hi.
I'm very thankful to what you wrote, because it's good criticism.
I'm not lucky about how things went recently because of bad communication and organistion. I hope everything well get better soon as no one seems to be happy with the current situation. I hope such kind of a 'fight' will not happen again or at least not in the puplic as it was on twitter.
As for sending criticism to the teams, you could maybe send a mail to: versailles-world@hotmail.com
As for the staff I don't know either f^^; I'd just know Mayumi by mail or Twitter (but there might not be enough space to say everything) If I find out anything I'll let you know!
Thank you.
I hope I could help you a little bit.
9th-Jan-2011 01:15 am (UTC)
Hi! (This is Loire from a new account).
Honestly I agree with your post and I support your opinion and decisions.
However, to tell the truth street teams have really no power at all... Management is rarely in touch with them and pretty much ignores them unless they need them for some projects.
This is probably due to a lack of staff, which leaves the situation quite out of control.
Being the first one to open a myspace and ask for friendship to Versailles myspace makes you automatically the leader without any control or question on the management side, and that would be quite ok since street teams really have no privileges or anything.
However, it's definately true that some street teams leader pretend to be high rank fans claiming to have powers that they don't have. It's similar to Japanese jourens: they never received any sort of power from the band or their management, but they think they have the right to lead or even bully other fans.
On European tours I've been fans having some kind of fights on queue because someone claimed to have the right to bypass the queue as "leader of XX street team"...
9th-Jan-2011 01:19 am (UTC)
Inertia lives in japan, they don't need Street Teams over there.

and it is true that some street teams have more attention, for doing better work and behave properly.


With i truly disagree is to give this image that "you have to be in a street team to be heard" that is not true at all.

As many fans must know, the band hears when you say important things.
Many street teams do nothing, so, nobody gives attention to them

and many single fans do much more, and have the attention of the band.
We must think before write such things.

I made a forum, explaining both points of view, to help friends in japan and overseas.
http://tinyurl.com/2wnme4u

join them, read about it and i hope we do the best for every fan.

it doesn't matter the day if half of the world does not agree with what your celebrating.

even more if you're suppoused to be celebrating union
9th-Jan-2011 02:08 am (UTC) - ok.
I did not know she lives in Japan, so there's no need to ST there, that's ok.
I don't say people who belong to ST are more important or anything, is just that in my personal experience I contacted Staff various times, long time ago as individual fan and never received a reply; but since I belong to a ST I noticed that as member of ST I receive attention. Maybe it is just a coincidence but it happened so that's why I said it. Also, leaders of ST have not special rights and are not special anything, we are only moderators in each country to keep the fans together and try to make sure the work is done. So please don't missunderstand my words.
9th-Jan-2011 02:11 am (UTC)
Why is there not an Internet Street team, really? Because everything you've done online for both Versailles and Larine is far more than some of the stuff these "street teams" do, and it's accessible to everyone with a computer, not just country A or B. Poor Canada, we have no street team. :(
(My old job called it "Social Media Representative" - upkeeping forums and facebook fan pages and writing blog entries and such.)
I do very much hate that you feel that way because you out of all the fans I've met anywhere has always kept a very professional and consistantly positive attitude towards helping the band fanbase grow and helping promote them in the best light possible.

/2cents. :)
9th-Jan-2011 06:28 am (UTC)
I agree with you so much. I told inertia personally that I doubt anyone else has done a better work divulging Lareine or Versailles outside Japan. I was never a Lareine fan, but I could read and understand about the band many years ago when I didn't know Japanese because of her. And I don't remember any similar drama going on back then... good times.
9th-Jan-2011 09:16 am (UTC)
I guess you don't know the work of the street team. I cannot talk about every street team, obvious, but Im talking about brazilian one.

Yes, we do a lot of things, you may not see it because you are outside here, but it's not just managing facebook, orkut, twitter or whatever, these are just ways to communicate (or at least it should be).

I guess every country has their own issues, here in Brazil a big problem is that a lot of people who want to support the band and buy cds just can't do it because they don't have credit card. We buy for these people without earn anything. We bought over 3000 dollars in Versailles cds and goods for those who can't and with the points we earn (we buy from cdjapan) we buy more cds to give the fans.

In 2 weeks we will have a exibihicion room on Anime Dreams (fujiwara may know the event) to promote Versailles, as we had in Anime Friends... is an event with over 100.000 people. We will be giving away official stuff and playing Versailles for everyone.

And of course there is the translation stuff.

Am I crazy??? Isn't it support the band?

It's very easy to say that we do nothing but... you are not here to know! Of course for someone who are in Japan it seems that we are just a bunch of fans trying to get the atention on twitter, but it's not, I can't say all ST are the same way because I'm not in every country to see.

But you have no idea of what you are talking about when calling "Social Media Representative".
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9th-Jan-2011 09:56 am (UTC)
Sorry I resposted because of some typos but I didn't changed anything.

I don't think anyone from any street team would say "No" if japanese want to join, all STs I know are very friendly.

So... if the japanese are interested on join anything, if they have any idea on how to do it... please!

It doesn't even need to have someone to join. I'm pretty sure if any japanese come up with any idea as #versaillesphilia we will agree without caring if it's a japenese idea or a germany idea or a paraguayan idea.

I really don't get the whole drama, it
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9th-Jan-2011 10:17 am (UTC)
So do you agree that's impossible to get everyone knowing? How we could tell japanese fans that have not a computer? We will need a mobile thing, this would be crazy! (But I do acess twitter via cellphone... anyways)

But what I dont get it's why all this drama. Is it because Kamijo posted on his blog he liked it? Oh, c'mon, you can do in japan things they like always. We did once! Because just once we did something japanese we're not included (just because they couldn't do it) we are that bad? That unnecessary?

It's not a replacement for the other date, I don't agree with the team who make things sound like this. It's just a twitter thing they luckly noticed and liked.

BTW, I don't agree with all STs behaviour but we are trying to improve, everyone needs to improve (and I'm included).
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9th-Jan-2011 09:48 am (UTC)
So at least she could say "some STs" and not generalize.

Ok, the idea of a online team is sweet (and kind of exist) but every country has it's special needs. In europe you can use paypal with any bank account, here you need international credit card, and most of people have only national credit card.

My group orders here are useful but it would be strange to post it in a "world online team", same with our room on the event.

Also, every country is so different... There is a world team facebook page (even if I'm not really into it yet) and it's quite useless here because brazilians don't like facebook much and prefer to write in portuguese. So... a world online team would be probably useless for us too. We would need to keep on bringing the world stuff into brazilian ways for it to be heard.

But just to make it clear. I totally agree with the idea, I just don't think a online team could replace the every country team.
9th-Jan-2011 09:27 am (UTC)
And... ah, I forgot something...

We had a very important path about the tour. You may not know, of course, but WE the street teams of latin america who went to the companies who brought they here when Versailles said they wanted to come here but didn't know any companies. Maybe without us Versailles tour would be shorter. That's why I was on Chile, because Gonzalo kindly helped us to bring Versailles when WE talked to him.

So yeah, you have no idea what you are talking about. I'm not saying that I better than anyone or made more than anyone. But I'm pretty sure our team is not just a "Social Media Representative".
9th-Jan-2011 09:56 am (UTC)
Most of them have no idea, there's no reason for you to say we don't promote the band, of course japan might be better, it's japan.

But imagine yourselfs in your own countries, you will be beging for information that is handle to us so that us can give them to the fans in our native languages.

We can spend all night/day talking about what the street teams do, but is useless, we do what we have to do to promote the band, to help the fans in our respective countries.

Not trying to be better than japan, japan fans, japan teams or whatever you can come up.

Please people you talk about us but i've been reading some really childish replies.
Is not because you're in japan now you can forget were you're from and feel superior, we're trying to solve our differences in the best way we can.
9th-Jan-2011 01:48 pm (UTC)
I think you're reading too much into my comment and I'm sorry about that. I never said street teams don't work. I am not part of one because of lack of time, but I do know you work a lot because I have friends who are part of them. What I said was that inertia has been doing a great work as well and when STs didn't even exist. I was merely agreeing with Zoi there. It's very simple and all Versailles fans overseas probably know that.
9th-Jan-2011 02:04 pm (UTC)
For sure, I am very very thankful for Inertia's forum, I was a Lareine fan and if it wasn't for her forum I wouldn't know half I do about what was happening with them.

I guess I told her so in Chile even if I could barely talk because of the concert in Brazil >_
9th-Jan-2011 02:22 am (UTC)
People complain a lot about Street teams

but when you do info search on internet.
read interviews, see videos with subtitles..al that shit.

were street teams people that translate them all, post them all, you may know japanese, but not everyone does.

Anyway.
9th-Jan-2011 03:13 am (UTC)
I don't know what in the world all this recent street tream drama is about, but tbh, I don't even like the concept of street teams. If you want to keep fans in a certain country coordinated and up-to-date on Versailles activities, that's great - but I've always had the impressions that the Versailles street teams are more divisive than cohesive and lead to a whole lot of "OMG X STREET TEAM LOVES VERSAILLES THE MOST/HAS DONE THE MOST FOR THE BAND COME SEE US ASAP" fighting. What happened to the Versailles global community?
9th-Jan-2011 03:28 am (UTC)
that's a big mistake o.O
all street teams work together ...i don't know why people think that just because they call "street teams" means that we're actually fighting to be better thant other street teams and other fans
o.o
All they do is promote Versailles in their countries, make some projects and that's all, they're people like everyone else..

i will love all of you to know some of them, to talk with them and you'll see they're not trying to be better, they just want to share Versailles with the fans in their countries.

Jesus, suddenly there's a lot ST haters over there @.@
9th-Jan-2011 03:33 am (UTC)
I'm sorry you have that oppinion, it is not like that. At least it is not like that in Colombia ST and the most ST I know. We work for the band and tell each other about our activities and ideas, to share, not to fight about it.
The work is really hard specially for the few who represent the teams, because we take the responsability of everything that is done in our countries about the band, even if sometimes is not our fault.
So, for some few that maybe you know with no right behavior, please do not criticize ST in general, because most of us do a good job.
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9th-Jan-2011 06:56 am (UTC)
I already said on the forum, it was all an error of redaction, we did not express the idea well enough and some people missunderstood. It was our mistake, but it was not with bad intention.
Please understand the difference. We do not feel more important than fans who for various reasons do not belong to an ST, and also we did not suggested the date for meaningful reasons. We made the mistake to express the idea in few words and then not everyone understood what we meant (I have to point out that a lot of people understood it right); and we made the mistake of writing: "street teams" instead of "fans". Those are mistakes that we did with not bad intention but mistakes anyway, and we are very sorry that it hurted so many people, since we didn't meant to do that.
However, we are not trying to fix anything, even when we made thos mistakes in the writing; it is true that we posted the idea in the public web and spread it so everyone can read and give oppinion, the fact that someone do not belong to an ST does not mean can not go online and read and say something about it. World Team is not an official team, it is only an online community where is easier to keep in touch among fans in different parts of the world. A community needs a name and that's the name, that's all.
And in the other subject, by "Leaking private information" I do not know what are you talking about or who are you blaming of, but I have nothing to do with anything like that.

So, as one of the two people who strated the whole thing, for the mistakes I made in the way of comunicate the idea, I am really sorry and honestly apologize. I know Nikki feels the same way.
I take the responsability for the things I have done, well and wrong. I know that for the mistakes probably some people hate me, I feel bad about it, therefore I apologize, but I can not force anyone to like me or forgive me so I guess I'll have to live with it. I'll just be more careful next time I have to write something to not cause such a big deal for using the wrong words. Mistakes are to learn about them, and is good to know what are my mistakes.
However, I won't apologize for things I did not do wrong. As it seems you also are beeing blamed in a way that is not fare, please understand that I am in similar situation.
Regardles what a lot of people said, it was a good idea, a lot of people around the world agreed and even the band agreed. So, I apologize that the way we comunicated the idea was not the best, but I won't apologize for the fact of having the idea and look forward the band' approval.
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9th-Jan-2011 08:43 am (UTC)
I can understand why you and many people feel somehow left behind by the Staff. As I said previously, before I joined my country ST I had the same experience. As a fan not part of ST or official FC (since it is only a japanese FC), I contacted the Staff various times and I was totally ignored. It was a couple years ago. That's why I said what I said in my first post here which I know sounds rude but it is the truth of what I lived myself, so I was just trying to give and advice to Inertia by telling her that indeed is easier to be taken in count by the band for matters like projects if is part of a ST than if contacts them as an individual fan. I know it is not fair. Now I belong to an ST and Staff notices me, but it wasn't always like that; so trust me when I say I understand your feeling and I agree it is not fare. Also, when I say "Staff notices me" it is not really ME, it is the ST I belong to. They don't even follow my personal twitter, they know "Colombia ST", but they do not know "ME".
However, I also can understand the fact that Staff pays more attention to ST, and is like I said before, just because it's easier to take in count an give reply to an ST that represents a country than take in cout and reply each fan individually. As for japanese fans who do not have ST, they have FC, and the same thing I guess: easier to keep in touch with a FC that represents the fans than with each fan; but I am asuming not all Versailles' fans in Japan belongs to the FC, so I guess is a similar issue there than with ST here. It is not fare but I see that maybe that's the reason of it.
As for the matter of the forum, you are totally right and we have been several days putting things together to start creating it. In fact, as far as I know Nikki is the one in charge to create the site. We are also really concern about the fact to keep in touch with japanese fans, there is an ameblo account of World Team but it seems it is not enough. Some people posted the info outside FB so those who do not have FB can read it, it is a shame that it didn't worked that way, at least not in time.
Also you'r right it was not proper to handle things through twitter where Versailles Staff can read everything, in fact, we think they found out that way and that's the reason everything was so quickly. When they found out of the general idea we found oursleves rushed to give them the rest of the info (the different days suggested by fans) before waiting anymore; and they decided very fast. Also, the further discussions were posted on twitter too and that made Mayumi-san and the band feel sad, which was also a huge mistake.
To end, I thank you for understand and as it seems you accepted my apology I thank you for that too ^^
I hope that this incident helps all of us to learn from mistakes and be more careful in the future.
9th-Jan-2011 05:36 am (UTC)
I don't have time to write much now because I have to go out for the day, but I'd like to quickly thank everyone for replying. There's a lot to think about and I want to help smooth things out, so I'll write later tonight when I have the time to give this the attention it deserves.
9th-Jan-2011 08:45 am (UTC)
AGAIN

i'll ask everyone to read this and participate of this forum.

there's our point of view, we're following yours here.

So please, ALL fans, if you do not want to be involved there's no need to reply there, but can you at least read?

http://versaillesgarden.foroactivo.info/t2-versaillesphilia-date-issue#11

Is it very important for you to understand our truly intention.


As far as the World Team concern, i am not part of it, i never post anything there, they're good people but i must agree with @Gekkakou

Is a hell of a BIG tittle.

Nor even my team, or my friends team were invited to participate in the deliberation of this date, or the deliberation of many other decitions they suddenly make.

We do understand that we are not giving a proper image, we promisse to behave better and also please remember

not every street team is involved, not every street team decide it, and even not every street team participate of this, we found out in the day of this celebration.

My friends and i are trying to make them see your point of view, but we can't control peoples minds...but we are doing the best that we can to make them understand they did not do it right.

So please, read and we will be glad if you participate and trade this opinions with us.


Miss @Gekkakou

I must appologise if you understand me wrong that day on twitter, i was not and i am not saying those things to anyone in any case.
So i hope you see that it was only a case of few patience, few characters to write and a lack of communication.

I did not put words in your mouth, or at least it wasn't my intention so i appologise for that, and hope we can count with you in future projects.


Some street teams decided one thing because they thing it is fine that way.

Personally i find no meaning in celebrating union and friendship if there's fans that doesn't feel god with it, that's no union.

Please undesrtand are not all the street teams, just a couple of them and we do not want our image and all our hard work to be in vain.
Because we care about what fans have to say, because its a family.
9th-Jan-2011 09:10 am (UTC)
We are doing that.

AS you can see, if you see the forum, is not an permanent one, but this was the only way to Street teams stop posting this issues on twitter, or facebook, because even i can't read what they post on facebook, and that's not unfair so i know how you feel.

We made a mistake, when the band told us that we're the best fans, they tweet was sent to me, i thought it was for everyone.
So because i was using my personal account i reply back " it's because you're great and every fan love you"

when i said "Every" i meant EVERY single fan, even if its not in twitter.


The teams did not run to Mayumi, because the argue were there, of course she saw it, and ask what happend.
I was one of the people who were trying to explain that we did some childish mistakes, but i let her know that we will solve this.

We are al grow up people, we are all fans of Versailles.

So i believe it doesn't hurt anyone to give the street teams one more chance so we can prove that we are not better, and we work with all the fans.

Please i ask you to always keep in touch if we do something it might not make other fans look good.

I can't control every team, i wish i could and this problem wouldn't even exists, but i can't so its a matter of patience and talking.

We are trying to be better, some street teams are taking sides, and that's not good at all, because some of them were the ones who make the decition, i don't want to see this kind of fights among fans.

I believe neither do all of you.
9th-Jan-2011 09:13 am (UTC)
No no, after this argue.


street teams start to taking sides...and that's what we call "fight" not what you're doing, you're communicating how you feel, and i spend the day doing my best to make both

street teams to understand how we make you feel.

and you to undesrtand what was our truly intentions
9th-Jan-2011 09:21 am (UTC)
but we are all writing in english so you can understand.

that forum was made for you guys, to share and see what every ST has to say about what happend.

Is not because we find funny to stay all night long awake, as you know, We've been two days without sleeping, because it's by the night that you can show up so we wait for all of you so we can talk this and solve the problem


9th-Jan-2011 09:26 am (UTC)
oh now i understand, sorry i didn't understand the first time i read it.

i'm so tired i can't even think well.


Well, Street teams internal issues i don't believe you will whant to read, but yes i ask you to read the first posts at least until "ayashinohikari"

We were trying to make them see how you feel.
9th-Jan-2011 10:05 am (UTC)
just to say, I tried to post on the forum but "only administrator can post in this forum appears" ...so, that's why I post here.
I agree some of us, maybe ALL of us made misakes, childish mistakes as you said.
Not for the people here who have been very mature so far telling things straight with no figthing, but in some other places there are people who do not act that way, but only fight and trashtalk.
I accept and apologize for the mistakes I REALLY made and I am sure I talk for Nikki too when I say that; but not everything lies on the both of us and some people act like blaming us of everything and impling on thier comments that our STs are not good, which is not fare since we work as hard as everyone else. I do not find fare that for a mistake in one issue a whole ST gets the "label" of not being good.
I also do not like tha fact of STs taking sides since we are supposed to be a family and this is everything because some of us wanted to celebrate the fact we are united fans we are proving that is wrong and I find thw entire thing sadly ironic ¬¬
However, I hope I don't have to post anymore, I already apologize to people here and in the forum and I will do it for the people on FB too; those who understand I am human as everyone else and accept my apology thanks, those who do not and decide to continue with that "I hate you" attitude, I feel sad but nothing I can do about it u.u
And thanks for give the chance to express our oppinions in other place different to FB.
I really feel very sorry that we had to met in this shameful circunstances. You all seem like very nice and reasonable people and it would be nice to be friends, however I understand if you do not want to talk to me anymore, but at least I had the opportunity to explain myself in a situation I am being told the things without being atacked ^^ so again thank you for that.
9th-Jan-2011 10:16 am (UTC)
Sorry about that, now i change it back as it was before.
9th-Jan-2011 10:26 am (UTC)
thanks ^^
but I already said what I have to say... anyway, it would be good you let it like that a few more, just in case someone else want to participate ^^
9th-Jan-2011 10:25 am (UTC)
i've been two days reading every single post that all of you do.
Lj, facebook, twitter or the forum.

And i did not see any street team saying that you're street team is bad.

This is not a matter to talk about it here, but as you start, i'll reply back.

Street teams are taking sides, because it deppend of who your friends are, european street teams have mor japanese friends, it means they will share opinions, latin america street teams are the ones who are united.

I believe this is not a post you should be doing here, and it as a constructive thing what other fans wrote about ALL-OF-US.

Because japan fans didn't recieve a good image of ANY-OF-US.

But taking a couple of people, take them to FB and make a close chat and deliberating things were not the best thing you can do.
That's what they are seem to taking sides.

NO-ONE call us to ask what do we think we should do about Fans in japan getting so upset, i was the one who step in to say that it suppoused to be with everyone, and that's why the forum is.
is not permanent, just to solve this.
I believe Angie you should try to stop explaining the same thing over and over again and start to listen and realice that in the forum we are saying what we do wrog so we can become BETTER.

Not to criticize other street teams, but to become more professionals.
keep that in mind.
9th-Jan-2011 10:32 am (UTC)
nobody is saying things in those exact words, just some comments imply it, that's what I say.
However, it could be also a missunderstanding from my part to see some of the things that have been said in that way.
9th-Jan-2011 10:28 am (UTC)
Sorry about what Angie post and my reply, this is and internal matter that you are free to participate if you like to give your ideas so we can become better.

We're open to opinions always, but this particularly thing miss the point of wath inertia was saying in the first place.

So i'm sorry, this belongs to the forum, not to here.

Angie if you going to reply about this matter, do it in the forum because i can not see world team account things on Facebook.
9th-Jan-2011 03:56 pm (UTC)
I used to work in advertising, and I can say that its REALLY hard to get approval for official promotion. IT SUCKS. Because it is normal for even a small band to need approval from four to five channels of promoters and management both overseas and in Japan at the same time, just to say if even a small ad is okay in English. Their hands are tied. Because sometimes it can take a few months just for something to reach the BAND to say that its okay, and this makes marketing awful! This is a big part of why Japanese bands have bad advertising internationally -- the business is difficult and the contracts are messy and there is too much "can do" and "can not do" legally from every company involved. This is how Street Teams are awesome. They do not have any legal worries. When I had permission to use a photo, if I even changed something small about the picture, I would have lost my contract immediately, and then my job. How was I supposed to create good promotion around that? But a fan won't lose being a fan.

But there's also the fact that Street Teams have acted badly -- once there was a problem at a private event I was at that a Street Team member snuck into, masquerading as staff. Entitlement? So many think they have it. I also want to say that a company I worked for actually had Versailles as a client, and though I didn't work on their projects (because I was a fan of Kamijo at the time, I didn't think it was appropriate), I heard good things from my co-workers about how wonderful the fans were for their overseas lives. I don't even know what this drama is because I don't follow bands, but I'm surprised there is any at all! Kamijo has always had really gentle fans, which was one of the things that made me a Lareine fan for a very long time when I normally don't think of myself as a fan of anything, just a "music enthusiast".

Still, what I have experienced, people in STs will look bad by no fault of their own when other fans can cause a problem when they think they are better than a normal fan and should be like "super fan status" because of their hard work. Bands don't recognize BNFs. A fan is a fan. Even though the other fans, the staff, and the band all appreciate the support, it doesn't change unofficial work and official work differences. I believe that Street Teams should feel like they are doing something they love because they are passionate about it. If they are doing the work to be entitled to special treatment, then its just a problem and not helping to create a good feeling that the band wants for their fans. Cliques can make a horrible atmosphere.

Its unfortunate to hear about Inertia's translation... although, I can see a reason why it might be ignored. Maybe? Honestly, I haven't worked with music for over a year and I can't remember how Versailles did things and (admittedly) didn't pay attention (lol, laziness + was not my job), but with a lot of other groups, big and small, you can't do anything for them at all unless you have signed a legal contract with them about the rights of using official printed material. You would have to make an agreement that any work you give to them becomes their property. And also maybe an agreement of no compensation. Also, likely an agreement there would not be credit given. That may seem harsh, but they have to look professional and need to protect themselves. At least this way, she can freely post things and have credit. :)

Everything is complicated and hard. lol. Apologies for the huge tl;dr. XD I replied to the entry and my thoughts on every comment in one brain-vomit comment so as not to spam. Haha.
9th-Jan-2011 06:51 pm (UTC)
Truly agree.
With the good things and bad things about street teams.

We are not perfect, somethimes there's some fans that actually believe they're better than others.

Even here i've been reading fans believing themselves to be superior, better or whatever just because they're in japanese land.
That's not right, for both..street teams and every fan because that's what we are, fans.

During these days we have been reading a lot of things about us, that we are useless (Not from Gekkakou), that we are not doing anything good for the band, that we feel superior than others, than they're will be much better without street teams and it really hurst, we work our ass off every single day, we spend a lot of money because is not going to a store and buy their Cd, we have to import everything so original material can reach fans hands, spend hours translating things, dealing with crazy fans trying to know how to talk with the band when even WE didn't talk with the band itself, i can not speak for every street teams, there are so many and every one manage different even when most of the time we work together, with some countries is so hard to speak, to reach to a good point than this things happend, we give a wrong image but that does not mean that every of us want to feel superior, that every of us feel like we are working just because we want recognition to the band, because is not true, I personally do this because there was no one in my country to do this things for us, group orders, meetings, events, no one, and when i'm in charge of them, then i feel is my way to do something good for Versailles, is my way to be part of this big family. You go to the concerts, know every movement, buy their goods, that's amazing, support the band from closer, you even have the chance to see them, go to meetings our FC tours, we do not, so please if sometimes we act a little bit more enthusiastic because the staff reply one tweet, don't judge all of us, we are so far, we probably won't even see them until a couple of years, is it that much hard to understand how is not easy for any of us?

I'm not saying this for you to change your mind about street teams, i hardly believe i can do something like that, i'm saying this for you to know how is what we think, why sometimes we mess up and look terribly bad. We are humans, we make mistakes, after all we have feelings for the band and sometimes is hard to keep being professional when you want to smile as an idiot because you're happy, even most of the time we do our best to keep professional, to control the fans that are a little bit crazy and wanting to feel superior, anyone is superior than the other fan, we are just fans, working for the band and for the other fans, and nothing else.
9th-Jan-2011 10:11 pm (UTC)
It's okay! Relax! You don't need to defend yourself here any more. :)

I don't think anyone here is blaming street teams as a whole any more, not after reading all these posts. It's obvious there are some teams that are doing amazing things, and that there are a lot of dedicated and sincere people working on them.

And honestly, I know what it's like to be a lonely fan outside Japan with no chance to see my favorite band. It was really bad for me because I became a Lareine fan in January 1999, back in the dinosaur era of international visual kei fandom. At the time I lived in New York City. There were a couple of other people outside Japan who had heard Lareine (by "a couple" I mean literally "2 people"), but neither were fans. There was NO information about them in any language other than Japanese. There was no way to sample their music online and no internet shops carrying their music.

I worked hard to change that. I got people to take a chance on listening to them by ripping and uploading a bunch of audio and video samples. (Not full albums, just a few songs, so people would have to buy it!) I scoured old magazines and Japanese websites to find even the most basic information, and I translated it as best I could with very basic Japanese and an old-fashioned paper dictionary. It was really hard because my Japanese sucked, but there was no one else who would do it if I didn't. I put the information online to share it with everyone. I got the two biggest Japanese bookstores in NYC to carry Lareine releases, so that New Yorkers were able to buy their stuff just by walking into a shop. I posted on Lareine's official BBS and sent them letters to let them know they had fans overseas. When the staff replied saying the band was happy and really shocked to learn that anyone overseas even knew who they were, I was overjoyed. It's probably the same feeling that Versailles fans now have when staff replies to their tweets, isn't it?

There was no chance they would do a concert anywhere near me. I wrote to Kamijo anyway asking him to play NYC someday. He finally did it, but it was 10 years after I wrote that letter. I couldn't wait that long so I traveled to Japan in 2000 as a tourist in order to see Lareine's last tour with the old lineup. You know all those overwhelming feelings you had when you finally got to see Versailles in real life in front of you, after waiting so long with so little hope? That's exactly what I felt when I saw Lareine for the first time. It wasn't until I moved to Japan in 2002 that I was able to see Kamijo again with New Sodmy, and I finally got to meet him for the first time. I'm sure I looked like an idiot, speaking as fast as I could trying to cram 3 years worth of stuff into 15 seconds of speech (in English too, so he definitely had no idea what I was saying), but the feelings I had at that moment are the same ones that all the international fans have had at Versailles' overseas meet and greets.

I might live in Tokyo now, but I know what it's like to be an overseas fan. It was exactly the same for me. So please don't worry about trying to convince me. I remember. All of us foreign fans who live in Japan had similar experiences before we came here. We're not that different.
9th-Jan-2011 11:24 pm (UTC)
At least one still remember how it used to be, we do recognise all of your work, always telling who's kinda "the mother" of all this, we weren't be able to hear Lareine if it weren't for you.

When Tomo introduce us, i was affraid that you see us as a bunch of fans who just want to look cool by saying "I'm from a Street Team", as i do not controle people, there must be a lot who actually do that, but this is not my case or Deborah's case, or most of the liders of street teams i know.

We just want to come up with the better solution so all of you do not think we feel superior, or trying to be better than anyone cause that's not the case, we believe we can work as a world team, without being actually in a "world team" that's not needed.
There's no reason to have a world team if they're just a half world team, as i said yesterday to the WT leader, you can't do choices and projects just with half street teams, and half of the fans.

I don't believe she actually understand the meaning and the importance of what i was talking to her, but anyway that's not my problem.
As my fellows and i concern, we want to show you that we are open to hear anything you want to say, or share, or even if is necessary, to correct.

After all we are all united by the same love, why we have to be split by something so ridiculous as ranks that actually don't exists.
9th-Jan-2011 06:51 pm (UTC)

I appologise if we make you see us as a wrong thing of like if we want to be better than yours, i repeat: it is not true.
How do i know?: street teams are very united, not because we love each other so much, because we work together with some projects so we HAVE to talk each other, and there's full of nice peopole, naive poeple, and is because this naive people, new in this things didn't know hot to manage well their ideia that all this mess begin. We didn't do onn purpose to let every other fan excluded from our projects, every one of them are for anyone who whant to join, the more people join, more happy we are.
We are trying since all this begin, to make other street teams to understand that we gave a wrong image and is our fault, but is hard to make someone understand that did something wrong, when they work hard every day and do not want to believe that they mess up. Is not easy to deal with people but is possible.

I truly ask you that this thing end up, is already reach the band, sadly because it was on twitter, we decided never to do that again, it was our mistake and we are sorry, we didn't control our feelings and start to argue in a place we didn't have to.
We also decided to make things more professionaly, so every fan understand that our projects are for everyone, i hope all of you can work with us one day and you will see how things manage, how people is, you will know many of us from different countries and different cultures but all of us work hard and in the best way we can.
Also hope you can always keep telling us your opinions cause is important to us.

But please stop this already, we haven't even sleep to be able to talk to you because the difference of hour.

I hope you all can appologise us for the mistake we make and give us another chance.
9th-Jan-2011 06:52 pm (UTC)
I have to cut it into two pieces because it was too long, sorry about that but please read, is important.
10th-Jan-2011 02:03 am (UTC)
nobody is better than nobody and sometimes, some people missunderstand our words, take them out of context and interpret freely witout even asking what we mean ¬¬
I personally will try to be more careful the way I express things to avoid this kind of missunderstandings in the future ^^
And also, improve communication channels among us so things like this do not happen afain, we all have learned that from this experience ^^
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